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本期的无限播客，为大家带来的是一场在广东外语外贸大学图书馆多功能报告厅举行的演讲。该场演讲由英国总领事馆文化教育处特邀的三位英国当代文坛新锐作家——罗斯·瑞信、凯瑟琳·奥弗林和拉斐尔·塞尔伯恩为大家奉上。喜爱文学的读者可以由此了解到一些英国文学的现状，如果有兴趣的话，还可以找这几本书来读一读哦。
首先，是三位作家对自己所著作品的简要介绍。我们节选了演讲内容和录音，请大家来听一听。
Ross Raisin 罗斯‧瑞信
God’s Own Country （《狂野的荒原》）的作者。该小说在2008年获得了卫报首作奖与John Llewellyn Rhys文学奖的提名，并获得了Betty Trask处女文学奖及星期日泰晤士报“年度新作家大奖”。
“该书是语言学的盛宴，作者的自创词语让人忍俊不禁。”
——英国卫报
Ross Raisin: The book is…It’s about that relationship between rural and urban; about that divide. One thing that I felt and was part of the reason why I wrote the book is that the…the countryside—the real countryside and farming is not properly represented in the media and the literature of the UK; of England specifically actually. There are very few novels about farming and about the countryside as it is in England, and that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to…to…to write this book. And within that…that…that rural/urban divide, specifically about these two characters, one the farmer, one the daughter of a family who moved from London, and it’s about that relationship in kind of a
1)microcosm.
Catherine O’Flynn 凯瑟琳‧奥弗林
What Was Lost（《那些逝去的》）的作者。该小说在2008年的柯斯达图书奖上获得了金奖。凯瑟琳本人也获得了当年英国Galaxy文学大奖年度新人的称号。
“作为一部处女作，《那些逝去的》写得十分精彩。”
——英国独立报
Catherine O’Flynn: The book is largely set in a shopping centre, a large shopping centre. And it revolves around the story of a little girl who thinks she is a detective or wants to be a detective. And she spends all her days at the shopping centre, 2)obsessively noting down what happens and following people who she thinks might be 3)suspects or up to no good. But what happens is actually that she, one day, herself disappears. And, that isn’t supposed to be funny. (laughing) No, then the story picks up 20 years later and looks at the impact her disappearance has had on two people who work at the shopping centre. One is called Kurt, who is a security guard. And he has sleeping problems and he starts seeing images of a small girl on the security cameras at night in the shopping centre. The other worker is called Lisa and she is the manager of a music store, and she’s worked there too long. She’s 4)exasperated with the customers and with her colleagues. Both Lisa and Kurt have lost their way in life, really, to some extent, and they have both lost people close to them. And the book really traces the way in which what happened to Kate or the mystery of what happened to Kate, the girl detective, brings them together, but also sort of helps them find their way in life a little bit again.
Raphael Selbourne 拉斐尔‧塞尔伯恩
Beauty（《铿锵丽人》）的作者。该小说获得了2009年英国柯斯达图书奖小说新作奖的殊荣。
“以纯正的原汁原味捕捉了城市里真实的人性。”
——柯斯达文学奖处女作奖项评委
Raphael Selbourne: My book is called “Beauty”. It’s the name of the principal character, who is a young 5)Bangladeshi Muslim; British but Bangladeshi in origin. Young woman of 19 years old; Beauty is her name. People have asked me, “Is…is there any…is she a beautiful person or is she beautiful inside? Is her character beautiful?” And I think probably yes, for me at least. Others may differ. She is a young woman of 19. She’s never been to school. She cannot read. She was forced to marry a much older man of 45 years old when she was only 14 years old herself. She managed to keep away from this man and not let him near her, and her family are 6)disgraced by her refusal to be a proper wife to her husband. The book is about her attempts to survive in a very strange world to her...
三位作家演讲完后，还与台下的观众进行了互动问答。大家的问题可谓花样百出，涵盖面极广，其中不乏许多有深度的好问题。受限于篇幅，此处仅登出三位作家分别对三个比较有代表性的问题的回答录音。
问题一：面对市面销售的诸多书籍，读者有时也许会被图书作品奖左右，常常陷入茫然境地。怎样区分一本书的好坏呢？我们来听听拉斐尔先生的回答。
Raphael: My publisher told me that a thousand novels a month are published in the UK, and they cannot all be good or worth reading and they can’t have been worth publishing all of them. I...I’m probably too critical of other writers. We talked today about advertising and retailing and marketing and chain superstores of books, and the prize award thing is unfortunately part of the whole thing. They’re (It’s) a
7)lottery. We’ve all won prizes—deserved—but it’s still a lottery. But, you know, I remain convinced that something good will come through eventually and it will be found and it will be seen. You have to have that 8)optimism otherwise you just…you wouldn’t…you wouldn’t write in the first place. Okay.
问题二：作为英语文学专业的学生，时常要因为完成作业而去读那些晦涩难懂的古老英国文学经典，诸如乔叟、莎士比亚、弥尔顿等的作品。对此，罗斯的回答是：
Ross: Well, in terms of…in terms of studying an English literature degree and then becoming a writer, well I…I finished my English…English literature degree and…and, as I said, I went on to manage a wine bar, you know, it didn’t…and everybody that…everybody that I knew who was on my course studying English literature, I don’t think any of my friends got jobs for years that were in any way related to studying English literature. I would say, like I would say if you’re doing a creative writing MA, I would say do it because you…because you enjoy it and because you want to do it. I can understand what you’re saying about being given the Chaucer homework, and maybe if it’s stuffed in front of you and it’s quite repetitive and there’s not much variation, then that can become a bit staid and not that interesting, but you’ve obviously studied English literature for a reason. You’ve, you know, I think if I could offer any advice then probably it would be to mix it up a little bit: maybe read some contemporary…some contemporary fiction in and amongst the Chaucer, because there’s nothing wrong with Chaucer. Lots of English people do find him difficult, but maybe it is the…the way we’re told to read it and the way we’re told to enjoy it that actually makes you shy away from it and think, “Well I don’t want to because I’m being told to.” But maybe if you approach it from a different angle, then it becomes enjoyable.
作家也不是什么都知道，你瞧，下面的问题就把他们难倒了。
问题三：作家能训练出来吗？还是说这是天生的？
Catherine: It’s a good question because it’s something I wonder as well. But whether it actually improves the quality of your writing or whether it can be taught how to write, I don’t know. I think to some extent there’s…there can be quite a lot of 9)mystique about writing, which I’m not sure is always right. You know, sometimes I’ve spoken to people who want to be writers, and they always say, “Oh, I’m really trying hard to develop my voice” and…and I kind of think “Well, I’m sure you’ve got a voice, I’m sure it’s there: just write”, you know, it’s kinda…I think sometimes maybe the creative writing workshops can actually complicate things a little bit. That’s a very 10)incoherent answer, but they’re…they’re the thoughts 11)off the top of my head.
罗斯：我的这本书讲的是农村和城市之间的关系，城乡的鸿沟。促使我写这本书的一个原因是，我感觉到，英国的媒体和文学作品一直没有真实反映农村——真正的农村和农作生活，具体来说其实是英格兰地区有这样的问题。鲜有以英格兰真实的乡村农作生活为主题的小说，这正是我动念要写这本书的原因之一。书中主要讲述了在城乡鸿沟的阴影下两个主角的故事：一个农民面对着从伦敦搬来那一家中的女儿，以聚焦小说人物的微观世界去放大整个城乡关系。
凯瑟琳：这本书基本上以一家购物中心为背景，故事围绕着一个自居侦探或说是想当侦探的小女孩而展开。她一天到晚呆在那个商场里，着魔般不停记录下周遭发生的一切，还跟踪那些她认为可能是疑犯或者心怀不轨的人。但是真正发生的事情是，有一天，她自己消失不见了。这不应该有奇趣效果吧。（笑）但是故事一转就是二十年之后，讲述小女孩的失踪给在商场里工作的两个人带来的影响。一个是名叫库特的保安，他长期失眠，晚上从商场的保安闭路电视里开始留意到一个小女孩的出现。另一个是在商场工作的唱片店经理丽莎，她在那里工作的时间太久了，整天跟顾客和同事怄气。在各自的人生中，丽莎和库特从某种程度上说都迷失了人生方向，并且都失去了身边亲近的人。该书其实是由追寻凯特（那个侦探小女孩）的失踪之谜把丽莎和库特拉到了一起，并让两人重拾生命新
方向。
拉斐尔：我的书名为《铿锵丽人》，用的是主角的名字，一个年轻的孟加拉裔穆斯林，是英国人但祖籍孟加拉，十九岁的女孩，名字叫“Beauty”。有人问过我：“这主角漂亮吗？还是说她很有内在美？她性格很好吗？”我想应该是吧，至少我觉得她美，其他人也许有不一样的看法。她是个只有十九岁的女孩，从来没上过学，不识字，十四岁就被迫嫁给一个四十五岁的男人。她想方设法拒绝这男人亲近，而她娘家却为女儿不肯为他人妇而感到羞愧。这本书是写她如何在一个完全陌生的环境下求生存的……
拉斐尔：我的出版商告诉我，每个月在英国出版的小说就有一千本之多，这些书不可能都那么好，都那么值得一读，其实真不值得都拿来出版的。也许我对其他作家的批评语气显得太重了。今时今日，我们讲的是广告、零售、营销、巨型连锁书店，各种作品奖很不幸的也属于这类东西，跟中彩票无异。我们都获过作品奖——尽管实至名归——但也还是有中彩票的感觉。不过，我还是坚信最终会有好作品出来的，会被发现，大家能看得到的。你得有这样的乐观自信，不然，你不会去动笔写作的。好，就是这样。
罗斯：讲到修读英国文学专业学位然后成为专业作家，我的确是完成了英国文学学位，之后，正如刚才说过的，我接着是开了一间酒吧。但也不是每个人……当年跟我一起读英国文学的那些朋友里，毕业后也没有哪个的固定工作是跟读英国文学直接相关的。我会觉得，如果你修一门创意写作的硕士课程，你要出于自己喜欢且真心想这么做而去修读。我能明白你所描述的感觉，要读乔叟的作品完成作业，也许因为是硬塞在你面前，而且反反复复如此，无甚变化，使其显得有点呆板无趣。但是，你在学英国文学，显然是有原因的。如果我能给些什么意见的话，也许你可以混合着来读吧：在读乔叟的同时，中间穿插读点儿现代作品。因为其实乔叟的作品本身并没有什么不好。很多英国人也觉得乔叟的作品不好懂，但也许是因为我们是被人要求去读、去喜欢这些作品，令我们产生了一种逆反心理，觉得“我才不要因为别人叫我这么做而去做”，但如果也许你从另外的角度去做这件事，其实是会喜欢的。
凯瑟琳：这是个很好的问题，因为我自己也有过这样的疑惑。但这种课程究竟能否提高你的写作水平，或者写作方法可不可教，我真不知道。我觉得从某种程度上说，写作好像是有秘诀的一回事，但我觉得不尽然。有时候我跟一些有志成为作家的人聊天，他们总是说：“噢，我很努力想发展出自己的写作风格来。”我会想，“嗯，我确信你有自己的一套，风格早就形成了，继续写下去就是了。”你知道吧，就是有点……我觉得有时候那些创意写作课程反倒有点把问题复杂化了。但是，我不知道。我回答得有点乱，反正我能想到的就是这些。
首先，是三位作家对自己所著作品的简要介绍。我们节选了演讲内容和录音，请大家来听一听。
Ross Raisin 罗斯‧瑞信
God’s Own Country （《狂野的荒原》）的作者。该小说在2008年获得了卫报首作奖与John Llewellyn Rhys文学奖的提名，并获得了Betty Trask处女文学奖及星期日泰晤士报“年度新作家大奖”。
“该书是语言学的盛宴，作者的自创词语让人忍俊不禁。”
——英国卫报
Ross Raisin: The book is…It’s about that relationship between rural and urban; about that divide. One thing that I felt and was part of the reason why I wrote the book is that the…the countryside—the real countryside and farming is not properly represented in the media and the literature of the UK; of England specifically actually. There are very few novels about farming and about the countryside as it is in England, and that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to…to…to write this book. And within that…that…that rural/urban divide, specifically about these two characters, one the farmer, one the daughter of a family who moved from London, and it’s about that relationship in kind of a
1)microcosm.
Catherine O’Flynn 凯瑟琳‧奥弗林
What Was Lost（《那些逝去的》）的作者。该小说在2008年的柯斯达图书奖上获得了金奖。凯瑟琳本人也获得了当年英国Galaxy文学大奖年度新人的称号。
“作为一部处女作，《那些逝去的》写得十分精彩。”
——英国独立报
Catherine O’Flynn: The book is largely set in a shopping centre, a large shopping centre. And it revolves around the story of a little girl who thinks she is a detective or wants to be a detective. And she spends all her days at the shopping centre, 2)obsessively noting down what happens and following people who she thinks might be 3)suspects or up to no good. But what happens is actually that she, one day, herself disappears. And, that isn’t supposed to be funny. (laughing) No, then the story picks up 20 years later and looks at the impact her disappearance has had on two people who work at the shopping centre. One is called Kurt, who is a security guard. And he has sleeping problems and he starts seeing images of a small girl on the security cameras at night in the shopping centre. The other worker is called Lisa and she is the manager of a music store, and she’s worked there too long. She’s 4)exasperated with the customers and with her colleagues. Both Lisa and Kurt have lost their way in life, really, to some extent, and they have both lost people close to them. And the book really traces the way in which what happened to Kate or the mystery of what happened to Kate, the girl detective, brings them together, but also sort of helps them find their way in life a little bit again.
Raphael Selbourne 拉斐尔‧塞尔伯恩
Beauty（《铿锵丽人》）的作者。该小说获得了2009年英国柯斯达图书奖小说新作奖的殊荣。
“以纯正的原汁原味捕捉了城市里真实的人性。”
——柯斯达文学奖处女作奖项评委
Raphael Selbourne: My book is called “Beauty”. It’s the name of the principal character, who is a young 5)Bangladeshi Muslim; British but Bangladeshi in origin. Young woman of 19 years old; Beauty is her name. People have asked me, “Is…is there any…is she a beautiful person or is she beautiful inside? Is her character beautiful?” And I think probably yes, for me at least. Others may differ. She is a young woman of 19. She’s never been to school. She cannot read. She was forced to marry a much older man of 45 years old when she was only 14 years old herself. She managed to keep away from this man and not let him near her, and her family are 6)disgraced by her refusal to be a proper wife to her husband. The book is about her attempts to survive in a very strange world to her...
三位作家演讲完后，还与台下的观众进行了互动问答。大家的问题可谓花样百出，涵盖面极广，其中不乏许多有深度的好问题。受限于篇幅，此处仅登出三位作家分别对三个比较有代表性的问题的回答录音。
问题一：面对市面销售的诸多书籍，读者有时也许会被图书作品奖左右，常常陷入茫然境地。怎样区分一本书的好坏呢？我们来听听拉斐尔先生的回答。
Raphael: My publisher told me that a thousand novels a month are published in the UK, and they cannot all be good or worth reading and they can’t have been worth publishing all of them. I...I’m probably too critical of other writers. We talked today about advertising and retailing and marketing and chain superstores of books, and the prize award thing is unfortunately part of the whole thing. They’re (It’s) a
7)lottery. We’ve all won prizes—deserved—but it’s still a lottery. But, you know, I remain convinced that something good will come through eventually and it will be found and it will be seen. You have to have that 8)optimism otherwise you just…you wouldn’t…you wouldn’t write in the first place. Okay.
问题二：作为英语文学专业的学生，时常要因为完成作业而去读那些晦涩难懂的古老英国文学经典，诸如乔叟、莎士比亚、弥尔顿等的作品。对此，罗斯的回答是：
Ross: Well, in terms of…in terms of studying an English literature degree and then becoming a writer, well I…I finished my English…English literature degree and…and, as I said, I went on to manage a wine bar, you know, it didn’t…and everybody that…everybody that I knew who was on my course studying English literature, I don’t think any of my friends got jobs for years that were in any way related to studying English literature. I would say, like I would say if you’re doing a creative writing MA, I would say do it because you…because you enjoy it and because you want to do it. I can understand what you’re saying about being given the Chaucer homework, and maybe if it’s stuffed in front of you and it’s quite repetitive and there’s not much variation, then that can become a bit staid and not that interesting, but you’ve obviously studied English literature for a reason. You’ve, you know, I think if I could offer any advice then probably it would be to mix it up a little bit: maybe read some contemporary…some contemporary fiction in and amongst the Chaucer, because there’s nothing wrong with Chaucer. Lots of English people do find him difficult, but maybe it is the…the way we’re told to read it and the way we’re told to enjoy it that actually makes you shy away from it and think, “Well I don’t want to because I’m being told to.” But maybe if you approach it from a different angle, then it becomes enjoyable.
作家也不是什么都知道，你瞧，下面的问题就把他们难倒了。
问题三：作家能训练出来吗？还是说这是天生的？
Catherine: It’s a good question because it’s something I wonder as well. But whether it actually improves the quality of your writing or whether it can be taught how to write, I don’t know. I think to some extent there’s…there can be quite a lot of 9)mystique about writing, which I’m not sure is always right. You know, sometimes I’ve spoken to people who want to be writers, and they always say, “Oh, I’m really trying hard to develop my voice” and…and I kind of think “Well, I’m sure you’ve got a voice, I’m sure it’s there: just write”, you know, it’s kinda…I think sometimes maybe the creative writing workshops can actually complicate things a little bit. That’s a very 10)incoherent answer, but they’re…they’re the thoughts 11)off the top of my head.
罗斯：我的这本书讲的是农村和城市之间的关系，城乡的鸿沟。促使我写这本书的一个原因是，我感觉到，英国的媒体和文学作品一直没有真实反映农村——真正的农村和农作生活，具体来说其实是英格兰地区有这样的问题。鲜有以英格兰真实的乡村农作生活为主题的小说，这正是我动念要写这本书的原因之一。书中主要讲述了在城乡鸿沟的阴影下两个主角的故事：一个农民面对着从伦敦搬来那一家中的女儿，以聚焦小说人物的微观世界去放大整个城乡关系。
凯瑟琳：这本书基本上以一家购物中心为背景，故事围绕着一个自居侦探或说是想当侦探的小女孩而展开。她一天到晚呆在那个商场里，着魔般不停记录下周遭发生的一切，还跟踪那些她认为可能是疑犯或者心怀不轨的人。但是真正发生的事情是，有一天，她自己消失不见了。这不应该有奇趣效果吧。（笑）但是故事一转就是二十年之后，讲述小女孩的失踪给在商场里工作的两个人带来的影响。一个是名叫库特的保安，他长期失眠，晚上从商场的保安闭路电视里开始留意到一个小女孩的出现。另一个是在商场工作的唱片店经理丽莎，她在那里工作的时间太久了，整天跟顾客和同事怄气。在各自的人生中，丽莎和库特从某种程度上说都迷失了人生方向，并且都失去了身边亲近的人。该书其实是由追寻凯特（那个侦探小女孩）的失踪之谜把丽莎和库特拉到了一起，并让两人重拾生命新
方向。
拉斐尔：我的书名为《铿锵丽人》，用的是主角的名字，一个年轻的孟加拉裔穆斯林，是英国人但祖籍孟加拉，十九岁的女孩，名字叫“Beauty”。有人问过我：“这主角漂亮吗？还是说她很有内在美？她性格很好吗？”我想应该是吧，至少我觉得她美，其他人也许有不一样的看法。她是个只有十九岁的女孩，从来没上过学，不识字，十四岁就被迫嫁给一个四十五岁的男人。她想方设法拒绝这男人亲近，而她娘家却为女儿不肯为他人妇而感到羞愧。这本书是写她如何在一个完全陌生的环境下求生存的……
拉斐尔：我的出版商告诉我，每个月在英国出版的小说就有一千本之多，这些书不可能都那么好，都那么值得一读，其实真不值得都拿来出版的。也许我对其他作家的批评语气显得太重了。今时今日，我们讲的是广告、零售、营销、巨型连锁书店，各种作品奖很不幸的也属于这类东西，跟中彩票无异。我们都获过作品奖——尽管实至名归——但也还是有中彩票的感觉。不过，我还是坚信最终会有好作品出来的，会被发现，大家能看得到的。你得有这样的乐观自信，不然，你不会去动笔写作的。好，就是这样。
罗斯：讲到修读英国文学专业学位然后成为专业作家，我的确是完成了英国文学学位，之后，正如刚才说过的，我接着是开了一间酒吧。但也不是每个人……当年跟我一起读英国文学的那些朋友里，毕业后也没有哪个的固定工作是跟读英国文学直接相关的。我会觉得，如果你修一门创意写作的硕士课程，你要出于自己喜欢且真心想这么做而去修读。我能明白你所描述的感觉，要读乔叟的作品完成作业，也许因为是硬塞在你面前，而且反反复复如此，无甚变化，使其显得有点呆板无趣。但是，你在学英国文学，显然是有原因的。如果我能给些什么意见的话，也许你可以混合着来读吧：在读乔叟的同时，中间穿插读点儿现代作品。因为其实乔叟的作品本身并没有什么不好。很多英国人也觉得乔叟的作品不好懂，但也许是因为我们是被人要求去读、去喜欢这些作品，令我们产生了一种逆反心理，觉得“我才不要因为别人叫我这么做而去做”，但如果也许你从另外的角度去做这件事，其实是会喜欢的。
凯瑟琳：这是个很好的问题，因为我自己也有过这样的疑惑。但这种课程究竟能否提高你的写作水平，或者写作方法可不可教，我真不知道。我觉得从某种程度上说，写作好像是有秘诀的一回事，但我觉得不尽然。有时候我跟一些有志成为作家的人聊天，他们总是说：“噢，我很努力想发展出自己的写作风格来。”我会想，“嗯，我确信你有自己的一套，风格早就形成了，继续写下去就是了。”你知道吧，就是有点……我觉得有时候那些创意写作课程反倒有点把问题复杂化了。但是，我不知道。我回答得有点乱，反正我能想到的就是这些。